Discussion: Club Content Advisory

An interesting topic of conversation has come up continuously within the last year or so by various people. It seems that a few people believe that certain titles (specifically ecchi but people would probably argue that warnings should also be given for shoujo-ai, shounen-ai, and trap anime) should be given a content advisory. Essentially the idea is that the club officers should warn people about what a show contains in regards to content. I'm here to post the question to you as club members;

Do you want all shows to have a content advisory warning?

I would hold off on your answer until you read other people's opinions on the topic. As such I am not going to put up a poll because I feel as if that will undermine what I am trying to do. I wish to have an anime club debate on the issue. You may find this fun or you may simply find this to be an annoyance but regardless I ask that you at least read the other people's posts before making your own decision. If this hits off well I might do a number of discussions throughout the rest of the semester.

In order to start the discussion/debate off here is my say on things;

In regards to the shows content wise everyone is over the age of 18 and thus are considered adults why should we warn adults about content. If a person can go to an R-rated movie at 17 or simply do a search on Google and find porn I don't think warning someone about the content is all that necessary. Of course warning people about hentai titles is preferred but not because of the nudity but rather because most of them are bad and we need to give people an option to get the fuck out before weirdness or badness ensues. Hentai is full on porn as far as anime is concerned and people do not go to the anime club for hentai. If they wanted hentai they should try forming a Hentai Club or something along those lines. This an anime club and should remain an anime club. Hentai and Anime are often considered to be similar by the general public but that is why we need to break these misconceptions. Hentai is a completely different sub-field of animation. If we were to watch hentai in the club it would be a necessity to warn people about it (although my next discussion will be along the lines of going too far day so let's not get too much into this).

If the content of shows is really that worrying for people who are adults then the most I can see of the club doing without being overly obnoxious or annoying is a genre intro. Tell people the major genres the show represents so that people can have a very basic understanding of what they will be going into. Planetes for example is a space slice-of-life drama with minor bouts of comedy and romance. If people like a specific show then they can search that genre for more shows with similar terms. Not only would this potentially help people seek out shows themselves but it would help people learn general anime terms as well. If an anime is based off a book/light novel/manga/visual novel you could also say that so that people if interested can find out other representations of what they just watched.

The problems that I foresee with doing a genre announcement however lies in it will take a bit of time to actually do this for every club meaning. It may not take much time to do this but other problems exist as discussed below. Ideally it would it be nice to suggest similar shows to what is being watched for people to search out on their own for. The problem with the genre idea lies in some people may not understand the terminology used and that some people have different ideas on what certain terms mean. Ecchi for example people often mistake for being just underwear/panty shots and fail to realize that in terms of anime ecchi includes shows with sexual concepts or nudity as well. So for some a general/genre idea of ecchi may not be enough to cause people to understand the "content advisory".

It all goes back to whether we wish to treat our members like children or if we actually want to treat them like the adults they are. A warning should not be necessary for any show. How would you possibly be able to represent School Days well if we were to give a warning what the show was about. That would not only spoil certain aspects of the show which are meant to cause a complete "what?" reaction but also gives people a chance to leave before giving a show a chance. If the only description for what was going to be watched was it's an ecchi anime people might leave before ever giving shows like Golden Boy, Shuffle, Ai Yori Aoshi, or Midori Days a chance. All of the titles I just mentioned are under the category of ecchi anime but are not only relatively tame but have great stories and characters to have someone leave without giving any of these shows a chance is just wrong.

There is also the fact that genre wise as far as anime goes if one were to search on a site like myanimelist the amount of anime qualified as "ecchi" is around 400. So to say that ecchi anime is not a representative of anime would be lying to yourself. I know no one has said anything like that but to simply ignore an entire genre of anime simply because people get "offended" is ludicrous. Do we give warnings for anime like My Neighbor Totoro which has two young girls naked in a bath with their father? Do we give this the title ecchi because of the nudity within it? Will people who do not understand what we mean actually think the show is ecchi and therefore ignore a "supposedly" great anime? How far does the content advisory have to go? Should we give warnings for language or mature themes like drinking and smoking? Do we warn people that a show might have elements of shoujo-ai/shounen-ai, crossdressing, etc... and give people who are offended by gays/lebsians a chance to leave? Why should we give only certain anime this type of content advisory? Is that fair to other people or shows. If we make a big deal about watching an anime with nudity, or homosexual partnerships are we not treating these shows and the people who like them as different? The anime club should allow all sorts regardless of preferences to be able to enjoy themselves. These anime do have a strong mark on anime history and to simply ignore or treat shows differently because someone is offended is just opening a can of worms. I know this is a little overly cynical but warning people who are adults about content is kinda retarded. Take that little rant as you will.

Go ahead make your own comments to try and persuade me otherwise. Currently I see no reason for a content advisory. Go ahead and argue your own case and be sure to rebuttal to my own. Let's get a debate going unless everyone simply agrees with me, or possibly wants to discuss some of the other ideas mentioned in my post in which case discuss away. Hopefully with enough debating we can come to a consensus as a club of what to do.

My honest opinion is you guys (club members) are old enough to know what you feel is inappropriate or what not. Everyone has a different opinion and I were to state what is not suitable for some people might not apply to others.

*story time*

About almost 5 years ago, when we got this club off the ground. Our former president Will and myself had a rather unique club member who was super religious (home schooled as well) and the first day we told people if they have an issue about content for club that we should warn them. This girl did come up to both us and told us to warn her about nudity/fanservice in the club, she was fine with violence and gore but boobs and ecchi titles were a big no no in her book. Well we did warn her and she usually ended up leaving regardless if the scene was for a mere minute. Other times when we said the show has some ecchiness she would walk out without giving it a chance, shows like Golden Boy, Junjou Romantica, Trapeze, or Texhnolyze she refused to watch despite them being good. Well I let this slide because she was a Freshman and she hasn't been out on her own. Well she continue to do this through her Sophomore and Junior year as well and then came Senior Year. She came back to club and again she got worse (almost every year it was bad).

She would freak out over the dumbest things like 2 guys/girls kissing and what not. She got on my nerves about me warning her and I just basically gave up and said "just grow up" well the last meeting she came to a meeting, and it was a new spring/summer anime from last year. We watched many unique shows and the best one of them all was B Geta H Kei, she flipped out over a sexual innuendo that she ran out of club only to never return for good (she's done this before but this was the final straw).


I can understand if some people who were shelter all their lives but I assume by your senior year you should outgrow your pre teen stage and know what is and isn't bad (in your opinion), but I have a strange and open mindness about this stuff so barely any of it can phase me. But again if you think it offensive just simply "Walk out" or wait till the show is over, we barely watch many ecchi shows. I know I have shown people a few ecchi titles this year, but honestly it keeps it interesting but also if you hate just simple go out the room and wait till it's over. I don't need to tell you guys what is or isn't inappropriate. Just grow up and make big people decisions, I am not your mother, father, or your lover.

I've always been against censorship that's why I enjoy the club so much. Now there is no need for advisory warnings for every show. Your exactly right when say we are adults and such "Adult content" should not be unfamiliar to us. I do think that we need to give a heads up to titles such as High school DxD, Why? because there was full blown nudity. I have nothing against nudity and I'm not here to argue whether or not its ecci or hentai. I just feel that when we show, shows that go that far we need to give a small warning. So what if people leave once we tell them, it better then them leaving in the middle of the show disgusted. It's not my place to judge what people are comfortable with and neither is it anyone else's. This is common courtesy alone, that is all.

frogman: I can appreciate your own opinions but I have to say I disagree with it. Full blown nudity? So high school DxD actually shows vaginas and penises? I'm pretty sure it doesn't. If it actually had a graphic representation of either genders genitalia then it would be marked up hentai. The reason a show is ecchi and not hentai is because in ecchi shows graphic genitalia is not shown. Breasts are not that big of an issue. Ass is not that big of an issue. We see shirtless guys in anime all the time and we don't need to give a content warning for that? Yes I know it is not quite the same thing but equal rights for both genders and all that...it would have to be enforced.

Why should we waste time telling people what a show has in it? I go back to the argument that if someone doesn't like a show then they can leave. We are not forcing them to stay. If they immediately see something that "offends them" then they can just walk out the doors. I see no reason to give an advisory warning for something that only one person may find offensive. By not telling them what a show will have you have a chance at actually getting overly biased people to stay and watch the show irregardless of content. If someone gets attached to a show or its characters and doesn't find out about nudity being included until the end of the episode or later on there is a chance that they will stay regardless of these initial doubts. By warning people you essentially make it so people that have strong biases against certain content will simply walk out without giving something a try.

I'm not quite sure where this pussy-minded idea of ecchi content only equals panty, bra, and ass shots came about but we have evidence of other anime from as early as the 80s which actually have anime listed as ecchi that show a lot more than High School DxD bothered to show. In some anime public hair is still considered ecchi and it is not until actual genitalia is shown that a show becomes a hentai...and even then there is a certain difference between the two. Sex does not equal hentai regardless of what people may say. There are plenty of ecchi shows that have the main characters having or attempting to have sex like Yamada's First Time (ecchi), Rumbling Hearts (ecchi), Gantz (ecchi), and those were only a few titles. Personally I don't care what a person's own personal view on ecchi is the club should base it on what the actual definition of ecchi is.

Robert E. Brenner author of the book Understanding Anime and Manga notes that "works considered as ecchi don't show any sexual intercourse or primary sexual characteristics (Brenner explains that this means Sex Organs: as in male or female genitalia). Instead it's up to the imagination of the viewer. Inside such media it often goes along with fan service (gratuitous titillation) in a humorous way. This kind of sexual themes or undertones can usually be found in comedic Shōnen/Seinen manga and harem or rom/com anime.

If you're going to give people a warning for nudity than I wish for a warning for cuss words, innuendos, drinking, blood, blasphemy, and anything else you can think of. You need to think like a person trying to prevent bad politics from going into affect. If you give an exception to one thing that offends people the likelihood of other people being offended by other things grows and eventually you will have to give in to further demands because you stupidly gave in for the demands of one other group of individuals. If you really wish to give content advisories for every type of situation under the sun then it's your funeral. You will waste time and seem to be nothing but a crappy Desert Vista Anime Club which fears everything including their own shadow.

Let them leave in middle of the show some anime can surprise people. If someone were to go up to someone and say you'll be watching Goldenboy it has female masturbation with a motorcycle, it has a president of an electronics company that wears a see-through outfit, has a water instructor who dresses up in bondage, has male bulges, has sexual terminology, has two males kissing, has a schoolgirl sexually tease an older male, striptease, has ass, breast, and vagina through swimsuit scenes, has implied sex, has prostitutes, has implied death, has violence, has peeping toms, has toilet fetishes, has breast grabs (the list could continue but you likely get my point) and who would wanna stay and watch the show after hearing all that. They would never realize that despite all of its ecchi content the show is actually ingenuous for its dialogue, has a heart of gold story, and has entertaining characters and circumstances. People would just mark it off as a 'bad' ecchi anime and never give it a chance. Hell if you advised people on all of this content you might even get some people who were planning on staying leave. You are not going to waste your time trying to let someone know about every teeny tiny offensive little detail. Hell a person could be fine with all of the above but upon mentioning two males kissing passionately may leave because they are homophobic and not realize the actual context of the action.

There is another thing that you fail to remember Chris...it's not just one show that is shown in club. Usually there are at least 3 shows that we show each club meeting. If you were to let people know in advance there will be ecchi content coming they may leave and not just miss the the ecchi show but the other two shows as well...hell it might even lose members if you have to go over the advisory content every single meeting. People are free to believe whatever they want and if they get offended by something that is their choice to get up and leave.

You also fail to remember one major detail as of last year we actually did something that made warning people about shows completely redundant. We let people know what shows we will be watching ahead of time before the meeting. If someone is truly concerned about a title they have plenty of time (usually a week minimum 2 days) to do their own research on a title and decide whether or not it is worth watching. I just realized this but giving any type of warning whatsoever is unnecessary when the titles are announced in advance. If someone really wants to make sure there is no content they will be offended by there is something called the internet they can look up information on the show on. Thus depleting any need to warn people about anything regardless...although I don't think warning people is a good thing nor necessary the best they have is the "what we're going to watch next week" announcement.

see not only do I argue for my own opinion but show how we have alternatives to the idea of a content advisory already in place.

I guess the only thing I can say is that just because I am an adult doesn't mean I have to be okay with nudity or anything that deserves a "content advisory" warning. I am very open-minded and mature for my age and most, if not everyone who knows me, knows this and not much bothers me. Still, I do find things such as nudity in Anime (or even movies, TV shows, etc.) when it is unnecessary quite distasteful such as in the case of High School DxD or Girls Bravo, like we've seen in club just like someone may not be okay with swearing. When it does nothing to enhance the Anime (story-wise, to be specific since I'm sure nudity appeals to a lot of people in other ways) I'd just rather not watch. Again, it goes the same for, for example, a movie that says the f-word every two words as well. It's just something I, and probably others, would like to avoid if we could. Back on the topic of nudity, if I wanted to see tits, I'd watch porn or hentai. But when I'm trying to enjoy a show and then it's like "Oh, hey, uhhh... This has no relevance to the plot so why are there half-naked women again?" it just makes me a little uncomfortable. On the opposite spectrum, I think a movie like Mardock Scramble didn't need the nudity in there but it was to show a point and bring more to the story. There was a valid reason for it so I was okay with it. This doesn't mean I won't watch what you consider ecchi (which is personally not what I consider ecchi but we've already discussed this so no need to bring it here) but it's no fun if I'm uncomfortable during the show, I think, and takes away from the fun experience I'm supposed to have while in club.

So, personally, I would like a warning. Just a quick "Hey, there's some nudity/risque/whatever stuff in this show so if you're not comfortable with that then might want to leave!" I feel isn't so hard. Just because we warn people doesn't mean we're "afraid" of offending people. I see it as just making sure everyone feels comfortable in the club environment. Additionally, I think you're making the warning a little more difficult than it needs to be. You don't have to detail what exactly the content is, like you said about Goldenboy, because then if people get upset you can say you warned them that there was risque material which covers just about everything that might offend someone, I think. Some people may not feel like the same way but you are right in saying that we can't cover absolutely everything that might offend people.

Just as a last note, not everyone researches the titles before club either because maybe they don't want to know what to expect as well. I know that, personally, I hardly ever look up titles I haven't seen before club because I like the surprise... usually. How could I know a title like "High School DxD", which is more likely to make me think of dungeons and dragons than anything, had gargantuan breasts and outlines of vagina? That title wasn't concerning to me at all. Just announcing a show's title before club does nothing to guarantee that someone will look it up and/or realize it could be a risque show. Even the club "theme" we announce sometimes like with Girls Bravo and the bananas didn't really register as a sexual innuendo until much too late into the show. So I feel like your argument/alternative option that people can just look it up before club isn't entirely valid.

Again people fall into the belief that they deserve a warning for something. The argument that people do not wish to look a title up in order to not spoil it is invalid as you can go to both myanimelist, animenewsnetwork, and various other places and read nothing about the title but can still see what genres the anime is a part of.

The majority of the club that currently exists wasn't around in its earlier few years when a schedule was never even put up nor were the shows announced in advance. We now have a schedule up specifically so people can look up info on whether they wish to attend...otherwise we might as well keep the attendees in the dark about what we plan to show like we used to.

I will however say that a possible solution to this issue could be when putting the shows up on the website for what we will watch next week we could have a list of the genres the show is a part of. The main thing that I am arguing is that it is unnecessary to tell people in club what content the shows will have. I personally do not feel as if it is necessary when one can usually discern a type of show within the first few minutes. If people do not like the content shown they can just up and leave. It would be there own fault for not bothering to look up info on the title before hand (just don't read the synopsis it's that simple). Even the argument that a person does not want to be spoiled will be unable to say anything if the genres are listed along with the announcements of each show on the website. They'd still be responsible and they would still be surprised.

The current ecchi count of shows being shown this semester is 3 (not counting voter's, officers, or days other people create). Does 3 titles really warrant a warning also what if something someone brings in is an ecchi but no one knows...you're just going to watch it until you find out because you have no other choice. There is also the possibility that if anyone has seen it they may just not speak up meaning you will end up not having a content warning anyway. There is also the possibility that an officer might simply forget a show has nudity/whatever in it and the club doesn't get a warning because of that.

I'm not sure if anyone in club has realized it yet but generally the club shows the ecchi titles at the end of club. High School DxD and Girls Bravo for example were at the end of the club meeting. I mean sure when I first watched High School DxD I thought it would be about a roleplaying club so I was just as surprised when it did not turn out to be anything of the sort but because of what it was we watched it last.

Thus far only two people have come to discuss this issue or have any complaints about this whatsoever. If there are other people with these concerns then they should bring it to our attention because so far 2 people does not make a valid argument when the club consists of about 40 members. The fact that these two people would also possibly/likely stay regardless of the content of the shows also makes me question whether this issue is necessary.

But Some people actually think Goldenboy is distasteful!

Its the same for your side of the argument, you only have two people with the same view. You have to keep in mind everyone doesn't think like you Baccano! I'm not trying to be offensive to the club members but, many of them don't have the time or the care to look into the shows themselves. They come to the club to be introduced shows they have never seen before. I highly doubt most of them check the website to begin with, which is fine is just a resource not a requirement.

It seems as if you're taking this to personally, a simple "Hey heads up, some nudity in this show." takes two second to say an is in no way redundant. The fact of the matter is this isn't how things were my freshman year, nudity and content warnings were regarded differently. Why the change to nonchalance?

I also feel this is something we should have an officers meeting to discuss this in person with the new officers.

Chris your first sentence doesn't even make sense. Our side of the argument? No this is not our side of the argument. It goes back to the whole idea of if something is not broken don't fix it. The vast majority of the club members seem to not care about the issue which means they are fine with the way the club is being run. The only reason I made this thread at all is because people had concerns or ideas about the club and I figured this would be a good way of seeing if anyone actually agrees with the two people who believe a warning should be necessary. Thus far we have none but those two. That obviously means the club is fine the way it is since 38/40 students seem to have problem with the way the club is run. If they did they would have come forward about the situation by now but since only two people have (within the last 3 years) unless more people agree with them nothing needs to or should be done.

On that side note if a VP per say wished to give a cautionary warning (not by John Sykes) then to my knowledge I don't see anyone stopping them from doing so. If an officer wants to give a warning to the club then one they have to look up information about the show anyway so they can find out if said show has content that may be offensive...but again there is nothing stopping a higher officer from saying something before a show starts. I constantly tell people I may not agree with some things but I'm not going to stop someone from saying what they wish...unless it is out of context or inaccurate in which case I will argue the case wherever we may be.

It's hypocritical to perfectly approve a show like Golden Boy which in many ways is far worse than most of the shows we've seen this semester in terms of ecchi content and then completely be offended by something else. Hypocrisy at its finest...hell we didn't have anyone complain about golden boy so what's with the double standard here?

That's what I was thinking about, just because Goldenboy is hilarious and awesome, doesn't mean everyone think so. No one and I mean NO ONE ever complains about Goldenboy despite it probably being the most raunchiest anime we show in club (if they hate it then they leave). Yet when we have a few ecchi titles people flip out over them. Why? Because they are not like Goldenboy? Sorry double standards people. Don't see why we never really warned people about Goldenboy, but now because of Highschool DXD and Girls Bravo we have to warn people? We showed worse shows last year and years before but no one complain (except that 1 girl who doesn't really count at all). Overall it just seems that you guys bitch about a show that because you thought was dumb we should give warnings out to, but not Goldenboy because you think that one is awesome.

I think adding/saying the genres of an Anime on the website or before we show it in club may be a good idea.

I also did too point out that other people may not find it as awesome as we usually think it is in my previous post. For me, personally, Goldden Boy doesn't shove it in my face because it's not the main focus like it is High School DxD did or Girls Bravo with the fellatio banana. That was just distasteful in my opinion and not funny at all or approached in way that could have made it a little more bearable. Honestly though, I'm not going to lie, I'm probably a little more biased because I'm a woman about things like nudity and girls being portrayed as only sex objects in Anime but that's an entirely different argument.

With Golden Boy the content is approached in a normally humorous manner and I feel that makes the content feel a little more tame/light to most people, me included; instead of them thinking how gross it is their first thought is probably how it's more hilarious than anything. Sometimes it's completely out of the realm of believable at how silly the raunchy content is. That's what I like about the show. It doesn't make me feel like I'm watching a "raunchy" show, just something comical. I never said nothing in Golden Boy made me uncomfortable either. The toilet fetish and blatant portrayal of women as almost always nothing but sexual are actually a couple things I don't like about the show but I can handle that because the rest of it is, as a general whole, a good show. That's why I never complained. Also, to be honest, I feel like if I did complain I'd just get shot down anyway since so many people like it. I tried to give High School DxD and Girls Bravo a chance by staying but ultimately can't say they are good shows after watching a few more episodes. It's not that I think they're "dumb" but legitimately just not good Animes. But other people who I know think it's amazing. So that's, again, just my preference. I do realize that I am holding a little bit of a double standard since you're right, I do like Golden Boy, but I hope this explained why a little bit better.

It goes back to the argument because you think Goldenboy

"content is approached in a normally humorous manner and I feel that makes the content feel a little more tame/light to most people, me included"

I totally disagree with this, while I love Goldenboy to death (one of my favorites), but it's still a vulgar raunchy comedy, it still comes down to be a dirty show. Again this is all double standards for you. I am not going to argue this again because this has been said before.

We aren't debating High school DXD or Goldenboy. These are both examples keep that in mind. I don't think High school DXD is dumb at all. And When we showed GoldenBoy both years a description was given stating that it had graphic and raunchy humor in it. We also always give a brief description of the shows to the club. These descriptions usually contain a hint of content warning, do you deny this? Because either way its still works well. What I mean is that you make this content advisory a big deal when we use to and usually still have a hint of. When a series is described as "Women with big breast and magic" (Which this description has been used before) its funny and gives a hint of a warning.

Here again you guys are getting to personal with this, we are using opinions and the shows as examples not to say what is right and wrong, that's what the discussion was about, yes? To see each others point think it over and come to an understanding. No need to take peoples words out of context. For example quoting Chelsea "content is approached in a normally humorous manner and I feel that makes the content feel a little more tame/light to most people, me included". This wasn't her attempt at stating that because she likes the show she thinks it makes it better than the rest or doesn't deserve a content warning. As Baccano's bring up people don't seem to care. Well have you walked up to them and ask them yourself? I'm betting everyone enjoyed Goldenboy but some may also have been slightly uncomfortable at certain points with it. You guys know how much I love that movie and love showing it to others. But its still has those moments when I'm not "uncomfortable" per say but It may be easier to watch scenes like those alone.

We may not agree about this but Baccono is right we can't stop or shut someone down because they want to say something. I just want to finish by stating again that no double standards was meant buy this argument, we just hadn't got around to using Goldenboy as an example, we aren't using Highschool dxd or girls bravo because we "hate" them but just because it was the most fresh in our memories, I could pull examples from last year as well but whats the point? No need to go that far if we are gonna get shut out.

Chris we weren't the ones getting personal about this, because 2 people decided to make a slight deal over it. All Bacanno was doing was bringing it up for a discussion because some people thought we should do this (yet still want A going too far day? Kinda Ironic imo) and it seems that its only the 4 of us talking. I am gonna say this last thing and move on because it just going in a circle.


We give people heads up at almost a week ahead of time of the shows we are going to be watching, you guys have an opinion about what is appropriate or what not appropriate to you, I can't make these decisions for you, you guys are adults and you have a right to leave if you want to. You ask if I have asked people about the content warning or talk to people? Yes I actually have, if you ever see me during club I actually GO UP TO PEOPLE and actually talk to them, or even before and after club. The majority of people seem to be fine or don't care at all on what is shown (if they don't like it they can leave), we have after all about 40 members, I thinks that pretty damn impressive don't ya think?

Despite us describing the show, we never really warn, even with Goldenboy I barely say much about it because you can tell by my description of what the show is all about. If you like what you see, great, if not well that's your lost.


I could pull plenty of examples of years past, but honestly no one really gives a shit, it's anime its gonna have stuff a majority of conservative people will not like, if you are still offended of what anime has to offer, then I guess anime is not for you. It's not all Pokemon or Digimon after all.

From here on out this topic will be used for a discussion. If this becomes and argument it will have to be locked again. That is all!

lupin the 3rd wrote:

I am not your mother, father, or your lover.

groovy

baccano wrote:

lupin the 3rd wrote:

I am not your mother, father, or your lover.

groovy

We will miss you!